Dr Louise Newson [00:00:02] Hello, I'm Dr Louise Newson, and welcome to my podcast. I'm a GP menopause specialist and founder of the free balance app. My mission? To break the taboos around women's health and hormones, shining a light on the issues we've been too afraid to talk about, from contraception, sex and testosterone to menopause related addictions and beyond. We're covering it all. I'll also be joined by experts and inspiring guests, sharing insights and real stories, as well as answering your questions and tackling the topics that matter to you the most.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:00:41] It’s very exciting today to have a guest from across the waters in America. So, Donna Francis, who is an award-winning beauty journalist and editor, and she's kindly agreed to talk about her work and about her experience. So, we've got lots to talk about, but you're not from America initially. Are you?

Donna Francis [00:01:00] No, as you can tell, as soon as I open my mouth. I'm a proper Londoner, and I'm gonna keep that accent as well.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:01:04] Very good, very good. So, tell me just a bit about your work, if you don't mind?

Donna Francis [00:01:15] Yeah. So, I've been in the beauty industry for 26 years. Not that I'm counting! I thought when it got past 25, I would stop, but no I'm still counting, and I've worked across numerous titles. I started on Company Magazine, I'm sure many of your listeners will remember that, because it was quite a cool magazine back then. And I've worked on Teenage Magazine, CosmoGirl and newspapers, the Daily Mail. I was at Boots for five years as their beauty director, and it was there that I introduced no retouching to all of their marketing materials. And that's something I'm very, very proud of, because unretouched beauty, real beauty, authentic beauty is something that's really important to me, and if you follow me on social media, you'll realise that Yes, I'm about the products, of course, but I'm all about how feelings impact your beauty. And I feel like when you're bombarded with a lot of retouched images and images that just literally are unrealistic and unattainable, then it's just going to make you feel really bad. So I'm all about promoting things that make you feel good, and yeah, just celebratory and joyful beauty.

Dr Louise Newson [00:02:37] It's really important because, you know, there is that saying that beauty comes from within, and it's really important. And actually, I mean, there's, there's various things we can talk about, but I think there's two main things in my mind. One is the impact of hormones, or not having hormones on our skin has a huge impact, but also the way it affects our mental health. So, if we're feeling vulnerable, we're feeling lower in ourselves, we're not going to be feeling as positive so outwardly, we won't look the same. And it really resonated with me. Eight years ago, when I was doing clinic on my own, I saw this lady who was really struggling when she came to the clinic like so many people do on a review appointment, she came in and she was just like so many people do. She looked different, like her skin looked better because it was more hydrated. Of course, her hair was better, but she just had this confidence that she didn't have before. So, she sat down and she said, I just want to thank you, because you have saved me 15,000 pounds. I said, I'm sorry. How have I done that? She said, Because I'd booked in for a facelift. She said, I'd actually decided I was going to have it done. I was going to lie to my husband and told him that I was going on holiday with my sister. I was going to stay with my sister afterwards. She'd had it all planned. And she said it's not just the way my skin has changed, because, you know, she had more wrinkles and lines, and her skin was sort of sagging and dry, because we know the lack of collagen and everything that's affected by hormones. But she said, internally, I just needed that boost, and every time I looked at the mirror, it just wasn't me. And I thought having some plastic surgery would transform my life. I know now it wasn't because it wasn't just how I looked, it was coming deeper from within. So, she said, it's amazing that you have saved me all this money. And I thought, gosh, this is really interesting, because we're constantly as women, being sold these things, products, procedures, and it's worse, actually, even eight years later. So now there's so much about Botox and fillers and your lips and your this and that and the other, and there's so much pressure. And actually, I don't think people are happier necessarily having all this work done because you're just striving for something else all the time.

Donn Francis [00:4:47] No, well, that's something I've chosen not to go down the Botox route. I've never had it, and it's quite unusual in my industry, and I've not got any problem with it. You know, it's your face. You can do whatever you want to it. But for me, personally, you can read my face like I'm one of those people, you know what you're getting by my face. I can't hide my feelings, and I'm quite okay with that. And I've always been about this kind of real beauty approach. And yes, there are times when I think, Oh, I just, you know, I could fix that quickly with, you know, a jab here and a jab there, but I've now got to a stage in my career and my life that I feel like I really want to inspire women to not feel the pressure to go down that route. But also, it doesn't fix those things, does it? It doesn't fix how you're feeling inside, and I've actually found embracing my vulnerability in my looks and sharing how I feel about my skin can actually make me feel better, which I think makes you look better. I know it sounds corny, but I definitely think it's something that women should be grateful for ageing.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:6:07] I totally agree. And I also think, this is such a shame that we are defined sometimes as women about how we look, but actually it's how healthy we are is really important. And as you know, if you eat healthier, your skin is going to look better anyway, without a shadow of a doubt.

Donna Francis [00:6:23] Yeah. I mean, men don't get all of this, do they? They kind of embrace age, and they always, you know, they're not backed into a corner to say, you know, they've got to have this done. But yeah, it is all about your lifestyle, and that's something I've definitely noticed since going on hormones and also looking at my diet and everything, I mean, I was forced to really look at my diet and my lifestyle when perimenopause hit definitely.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:6:53] Can you explain a bit more what happened?  

Donna Francis [00:6:56] Yeah, so basically, I went, I didn't even know what perimenopause, I hadn’t even heard of the word perimenopause when I went into perimenopause, which was about five years ago. And it's funny because now that's all I write about, but I was going through quite a stressful time in my life. It was during COVID, and my dad had contracted COVID before we kind of even knew what it was. We didn't know at the time, and he was on life support. My husband was actually over in America. I was still in the UK at the time, and he was over here caring for a sick relative, and um he couldn't come back because of the borders being closed. So I was at home. My dad was sick. My kids were being homeschooled. I've got two sons, and perimenopause little did I know was brooding and I was stressed, but I now know that it wasn't all stress. It was my hormones going haywire. I was getting palpitations. I was just getting extremely anxious, and I just felt very, very lonely and like I was going mad. I was very snappy with the kids. It was just, it was a really hard time. But you know what, we're like, we just like, suck it up, get on with it, don't we? And what didn't help. I mean, I've always loved to drink. I'm your classic grey area drinker. You know, love my wine at the end of the night. And I think my husband was so worried about me, kept sending like, crates of rosé over.

Donna Francis [00:8:32] like, I love rosé, and he would just say, oh, you know, have a drink. You'll be alright. And so, I kind of got used to taking the edge off, or so I thought, by having a glass of wine at the end of the day. And it got to a daily habit. And I hate that word alcoholic, and I don't see that I was an alcoholic, but I started depending on it, and I don't mind talking about this. And this is something that I really am passionate about now, because I feel like so many women are in the same situation that I was in, and I was having this glass of wine, and obviously, or glass, or bottle, you know, whatever and obviously it was making me feel good at the time. But then I was those middle of the night anxiety spells, the heart palpitations, were one of the first things for me. And obviously the more wine I was drinking, what I now know, the worse they were getting. And I was waking up feeling so bad, I don't want to swear, but just really bad. It was a vicious circle, cut to moved over here. I now live in America. I live in Florida, so cocktail clock is very tempting all of the time, and I didn't realise that it was really, you know, affect my hormones or impacting my tolerance to alcohol. And I started blacking out. I would not have loads, but I'd have a drink. And then the next morning, I'd wake up and think, can't actually remember going to bed, and it would not need a lot.  

Donna Francis [00:10:09] And, you know, got myself into some embarrassing situations, falling asleep in a swimming pool, just throwing up in front of new friends. And I wasn't drinking loads, but it was just, you know, even if it was a couple of glasses of wine or a cocktail or whatever, it would make me really, you know, just anxious and just not in a good place. And I had a few of those situations, I now had this inner voice going to me, you've got to sort this out. This is just not and then I started writing more about perimenopause, and I spoke to a few doctors, and I was saying to them, Do you drink like and what does it do? And they started explaining to me about, you know, how it affects your gut and your hormones, and you just can't tolerate it anymore. And I knew, I just thought, I'm gonna have to stop drinking. And I tried, you know, the only drinking during the weekends didn't work. And then one day last July, I woke up and I kept what I was doing is I was waking up in the morning and I was doing kind of the walk of shame with my kids, because they would say something to me, and I'd say, Oh, really. And they'd like, well, I told you that yesterday, Mum. And I would forget, and I'd wake up and I'd think, this is just not good. I'm not a good mom. I'm, you know, I'm not a good wife. And I woke up and I just thought I'd had too many occasions where it was just wasn't going great.  

Donna Francis [00:11:38] And I woke up and I thought, That's it. I'm going to give up. And I went onto Instagram, and some people say, you know, that's quite extreme, that I decided to just not drink anymore. But that's the only way it worked for me, and that's not for everyone. And I went onto Instagram because I felt like it would hold me accountable, and I told my followers, and the amount of messages that I got back about it was just incredible and so humbling. And so since then, I've been on this real mission to kind of talk about it and share my stories. And you know, women that can relate to me all have the stories that they can remember that are similar to mine, you know. So that has made a huge impact on my life now.

Donna Francis [00:12:27] Now I'm sober, I've cleaned up everything else. It's made me healthy. I mean, I've always been pretty healthy, but it's like an on and off switch. I sleep. My mood is so much better. My skin ah I mean, my skin, it's just like, they say, it's just so clear and bright and everything is so much better.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:12:52] Well, people don't realise the impacts of alcohol, and it's thank you for sharing your story and being so honest. So many people find that when they're perimenopausal or menopausal, that the effects of alcohol are different. So, people get hung over quicker. They find that they only drink one or two glasses of wine rather than three and four and get drunk easier. And they didn't realise that the hormones oestrogen or oestradiol, progesterone, testosterone, have effects throughout our liver, but also our brain, and our brain coordinates the metabolism of the liver as well. So, there's all these processes that are going on affecting the way alcohol works in our liver, but also, there are lots of mental health issues that often occur during perimenopause and menopause that people think it's because I've been drinking and don't realise it's because there's an underlying problem. And then for you, you throw in something like COVID, it's very hard sometimes to unpick. You know, is it the effects of alcohol, or is it the effects of hormones? And that happens so much, and I'm sure people probably have contacted you really confused as to what's going on.  

Donna Francis [00:14:01] Yeah, definitely. And I think you're so right. That's why it's not so black and white, is it? And you really have to kind of go into yourself and understand everything that's going on in your life before you make any decisions. And I always say that to any women that are saying, oh, I'm feeling like this, and I'm and I say, well, not everyone's the same. And I'm not saying that you need to go sober, but it might be an influence in how you're feeling, and you might be able to address it. You know, it might help you. By cutting alcohol out, it will definitely help in some way. Look, we know it's going to help. If you're drinking a lot and you're reaching for the bottle to take the edge off, then we know that by cutting down that it's going to address and help your symptoms in some way.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:14:53] Yeah, for sure, and it's so difficult sometimes to unpick. But we also know there are health risks. Of course there are of drinking alcohol, but I don't know. It's funny, I don't drink alcohol at all, and I stopped drinking alcohol probably about 18 years ago, and I've never drunk much, but in retrospect, I was perimenopausal and didn't realise was before I'd had my third child, but I know my hormones were fluctuating, and I got a lot of palpitations, actually, like you were saying, and I got palpitations like at different times, not related to drinking. But when I saw the cardiologist, he said, well, I think you should give up alcohol and caffeine, because all my heart tests were fine, and I did, and actually it didn't make the palpitations any different, but what it did do is just help me think a bit clearer, sleep better.

Dr Louise Newson [00:15:43] And actually I had less migraines, and I'm very prone to migraines, so anything to reduce migraine intensity and frequency is really important for me. So, I was probably drinking, I don't know, three or four glasses of wine a week at the most. It wasn't, never much, but actually it was. It really did help with migraines. But now, when I say to people, I don't drink at all, they think it's absolutely mad, and they presume that I had an alcohol problem, which I think is it's quite hard because, you know, it's irrelevant to other people. Whether I drink or not, it's what I'm doing to myself is the most important thing. And so, I feel like there is this pressure on society. You know, we were talking at the beginning about pressure of looking good, but there is a bit of pressure that, you know, not drinking makes you a bit unusual, almost. And I think that's really sad.

Donna Francis [00:16:32] Huge pressure, sober equals boring. Yeah, that's what people think. And do you know what? And I say this to my followers as well, that's what I used to think. Yeah, I'd be like, well, if you're not drinking, you're not going to have any fun. And it's so not true, no. And that pressure on us to feel like we have to have a drink, and so much revolves around alcohol, especially in midlife, when you're at our age and you're at home, maybe more with the kids. Or its that yummy mummy? I mean, a lot of people don't like this phrase, but the mummy wine culture, they don't like it because it suggests, you know, it's quite derogatory, but at the end of the day, it does exist, like there are those cards out there that you see all the time. You know, you reach for the wine, it's going to take the edge off. It's in front of you on social media all the time. And that's why I'm really passionate to just say to women that you know you're not boring if you're not going to have a drink and you go out, let's educate women that they don't need to do that. It doesn't need to be the thing to have to do.

Dr Louise Newson [00:17:41] Absolutely and in fact, one of my really good friends was reminding me the other day that actually one of our mutual friends, when I stopped drinking, when we were out one night, she was drinking clearly and drunk probably a bit too much. And she said, oh, I feel really sorry for Paul. Who's my husband. I said, What do you mean? And she said, oh, well, you know, he really likes drinking. How's he going to cope being married to you who doesn't drink? And I'm sorry, our relationship is not based on whether I drink or not, and if it is, it shouldn't be a relationship. You know, it's really. And I think the thing is also, when people are perimenopausal and menopausal, and I see it a lot, but I know myself it was the same, your self esteem is often quite low. Your feeling of self worth is quite low. You have a lot of self doubt, you have a lot of anxiety. So it takes quite a lot more to change a lifestyle, whether it's drinking, smoking, anything, but also these hormones that work in our brain, they affect dopamine, our reward hormone, as well.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:18:40] So, addictions often do increase during perimenopause and menopause. So not just alcohol, but any addictive behaviour. And we did a study a little while ago asking women whether they were drinking more, smoking more, but drug taking as well. So not just a bit of marijuana, but actually Class A drugs. People were saying that they were having more cocaine, really scary, and also gambling as well. And part of it is trying to get this dopamine hit. Because if you can't have it naturally, you know you don't feel the same hormonal change, because you don't have your Oestradiol, progesterone, testosterone, then you have less dopamine. And so people try and do it in other ways, and then also, if you've got more anxiety, more more worry, you want to just maybe just live on the edge a little bit more. But I was really struck by women in the free text comments talking about how they had turned to alcohol or drugs to try and escape the demons in their brain the way they were thinking to try and improve their mood, because antidepressants hadn't helped. They couldn't be listened to by doctors. They didn't want to explain how bad they felt. They couldn't talk to a partner, they couldn't talk to anybody else, and that makes me feel really sad, because when you think about people that drink it's like a glass of wine having a laugh with a friend. But it's not for a lot of people, and definitely I see it a lot in people who have hormonal changes, and that really scares me, because it's a cry for help, and they're not getting listened to.  

Donna Francis [00:20:15] And that's why I'm so passionate about talking about it, because I think it makes women feel less lonely. But for me, I got that hit by eating ice cream that dopamine hit. But also, exercise has been my saviour in perimenopause and menopause. It really has helped me with my mental health, like even this morning, you know, I was so excited about coming on, but obviously you get a bit nervous about doing these things, so I thought I need to go to the gym and work out so I get myself in that right headspace. And it gives you that bit of confidence, because you it gives you that dopamine hit, and it just then you're doing something for yourself that actually, for me, exercise is not just about the physical, it really is more about the mental benefits and I think that's something that I've embraced more since being sober. It was something I did before, but I feel like, again, it just self-perpetuates, doesn't it? It's just positive, so it just ticks them boxes for you.

Dr Louise Newson [00:21:14] And that's really important for you. I think that's so important because I always think with any any addiction or any lifestyle that you're trying to change, you want to add something into your life rather than take it away. So, if you say you must not drink, all you're going to do is think about drinking, whereas if you say, Let's increase your exercise, you're suddenly thinking about exercise. And obviously there are many health benefits as well. And you know, obviously replacing the hormones is really transformational for most women, because you're treating the underlying cause. But actually, it's not just about the hormones. You know, I do a lot of yoga, and actually that's really good for my mental like you say, and physical health as well. But actually, looking at how we can improve our future health, what we can do, whether it's because we want to have better skin or, probably more importantly, better stronger bones, a better cardiovascular system, better functioning brain. I think as perimenopausal, menopausal women, we have to be thinking about responsibility for our future health, and it's always going to be multifactorial, and it's always going to be different for different people, but having the ability to choose and work out what's right for us is so important, isn't it, without being judged by other people.

Donna Francis [00:22:30] That's the thing, and that's something that I'm really passionate about saying as well. You know, I don't judge anyone, and everyone's journey is so different, and it's all about finding out what's right for you. And also, the other thing that I want to say is that by addressing all these things, it's made me appreciate myself so much more, and that self worth has come back, which is something that I think we lose, as we hit menopause and all the hormones, and, you know, we're thinking of everyone else and everyone, you know, that sandwich generation. We're looking after our parents; we're looking after our kids. We're trying to get a career, and we kind of lose our sense of self and our self worth and everything, and we forget what's important for us

Donna Francis [00:23:15] And I think by making a little switch and addressing what I needed to do, made me realise that I was looking after myself, and it made me appreciate my own relationship with myself, if you know what I mean, and I think that could be, even if you're going on hormones or anything. You know, advocating for yourself is a really empowering thing, and it just as my mum always says, You can't pour from an empty cup, and you need to look after yourself...

Dr Louise Newson [00:23:43] I love that!

Donna Francis [00:23:43] ... to look after everyone else

Dr Louise Newson [00:23:45] It’s so important. And I sort of feel I've become more selfish as I've got older, because, like you say, if I don't look after myself, if I'm not mentally and physically well, I cannot look after my children and my husbands as well and everybody else that I'm trying to look after. You know, it is really important, and a lot of it goes, I think so much identity of us as women goes with age, but also with when our hormones go as well. And it's very convenient for society, often for women to be hidden. I talked about this in one of my podcasts with Joanna Harris a while ago, the amazing author, and she talks a lot about the invisibility of women and how society is set up for women to be invisible. And when I think a lot of times, people aren't prepared for us as older menopausal women, to come back to society to contribute more. And I feel very strongly that we have got a lot more that we can give once we feel better within ourselves.  

Donna Francis [00:23:46] That is so true. I couldn't have said it better myself, and that is something that I'm so passionate about. You know, I always say we need to rebrand menopause to Meno- power, and give women the inspiration that it's not the end, and that I feel like it's actually just a new beginning of my life, and I feel more empowered, I think, now than any other time in my life, and I think it's so important that when you have a little bit of a spotlight to help women feel the same, I'm so passionate about it. And I think with beauty, that's why I'm so passionate about not being pretentious with my beauty content, being really uplifting and joyful. Because I know a lot of women, they might go on TikTok or Instagram, and they'll see people with perfect skin, perfect faces, and you know, perfect makeup routines. And I always say, you know, nothing's perfect. We can't be don't give yourself a hard time. Actually, embrace your flaws and your vulnerabilities. Look at the good things. And you know, we have all got that beauty in us. It sounds corny, but I'm just really passionate about  

Dr Louise Newson [00:25:57] No, it's so important. And what a great place to end thinking about that empowerment and thinking about choice and thinking about it being a new beginning. So, thank you so much for your time before we end. I'd just really like to ask you three take home tips. So, three things that you think women could do themselves to be really empowered, to think about this time of our lives as a new beginning. What are the three things that you think would make a big difference to women?

Donna Francis [00:25:57] I think, firstly, advocate for yourself, and what I mean by that is by speaking out about your concerns, whether it's menopause, whether it's perimenopause, whether it's in your job or with your relationships, you need to find your voice and speak out about your problems and your issues. And I think as soon as you share something, it really helps you overcome whatever your problems are. I also think there's that inner voice for me addressing those conversations that I was having in my head that I wasn't trusting. I guess I think with age, you learn to trust your gut more, and I was having a lot of conversations in my head that I knew I needed to put out into the open and introduce steps in my life to make them happen. Does that make sense?  

Dr Louise Newson [00:27:28] Yes.  

Donna Francis [00:27:29] And then the third one is self love. You just need to give yourself a bit of a break and just look back and how far you've come and how far you can go, and remember that you only have really one well, you only have one life, and you just need to make the most of it and love yourself more perfect.  

Dr Louise Newson [00:27:50] Very good, yeah, really enriching. And you're so right. And thanks so much for sharing so much, actually, with all of us today. I really appreciate it. Donna, so thank you.  

Donna Francis [00:28:00] Thank you so much for having me. I've loved this recording.  

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